Lesbians teens in love to sail the Seven Seas, pomp and circumstance in manga, one last tidbit about ICv2′s top 10

My take on “Yuri” was that it describes more the content than the intended audience (unlike, say, “Shonen” or “Shoujo,” both of which are specifically named FOR their target audience). I’ve seen yuri titles aimed at women and titles aimed at men. I’m a male reader/fan who is very excited about the new Yuri line, and while I’ll admit that there is a certain ‘titillation’ factor there with the lesbians, my main interest is in a good story with good art and a core built around a romantic element. Same thing that draws me to non-yuri series like Love Hina, Video Girl Ai, Ai Yori Aoshi, etc.

Personally, I hope plenty of men AND women pick up on the Strawberry line and that it does very well for S7… :)

“Yuri” and “Bara” were indeed coined by Ito Bongaku to refer to actual gay women and men, respectively. But it was both male and female doujinshi and hentai artists who started using “yuri” as shorthand for any girl-and-girl fictional romance. As far as I’m aware, only in English-speaking fandom is there a movement to make the word “yuri” apply to only things written by women for women. So you’re not wrong about the origins of the word, but the thing is, language changes and evolves. ;) If you asked the average Japanese fan (and just for kicks I did an informal poll of my coworkers to see if this was true), they’ll tell you that “yuri” means any girl-on-girl romance, and would be surprised if you tried to limit the definition to “only things written by or for women.”

It’s true that *some* yuri manga is categorized as “tanbi,” but that’s because *some* yuri manga is shoujo, and *some* non-shoujo yuri manga is very pretty and flowery (especially the more classy bishoujo stuff). But there is also a lot of yuri manga not categorized as “tanbi.”

I can understand the impulse to differentiate between lesbian stories written by men, for men versus lesbian stories written by women, for women. They’re two very different things. And as a women, sometimes I do roll my eyes and groan while reading the likes of Strawberry Panic. Okay, often. ^^;; But if you want to differentiate, then maybe specify “shoujo yuri” or “bishoujo yuri.” The simple truth is that for Japanese speakers and for the majority of English speakers, “yuri” is, as akcoll said, a word that describes content, not the intended audience. And should it surprise anyone that a lot of lesbian love stories are written by men? No. That’s the other thing that peeves me about the “let’s say that only ‘yuri’ can be written by women” movement. It’s like saying men could never write it “right.” As annoying as male-written lesbian porn can often be, to say that it could never ever be done strikes me as downright sexist.

This is a good page describing the history of the word “yuri” and its usage in English-speaking fandom:
http://www.yuricon.org/essays/whatisyuri.html

Note the last section of their definition:

“We can, if we want to, differentiate between shounen yuri – written by men for a primarily male audience; shoujo yuri – written by women for a primarily female audience and; what we at Yuricon like to think of as “pure” yuri – written by lesbians for a lesbian audience…but it’s still all yuri. In short, yuri is any story with women in love (or lust) with other women.”

Also from this page, http://www.yuricon.org/essays/Yuri_101.html :

“Yuri is not a genre in and of itself €“ it crosses all genre lines and can be found in anime and manga targeted to nearly every age group and gender.”

Now, you said that to define [yuri] by content alone is inadequate, and I agree. That’s why it’s useful to differentiate between different types of yuri. But in the end, it’s all yuri. To make an analogy: It would be impossible to define the word anime in terms of a specific style or intended audience, since anime is any animation made in Japan. But that means that we differentiate between different types of anime, not that we narrow down the definition of anime to refer to, say, only giant robot shows marketed towards young men. The same is true for yuri. It’s a very broad term, but a few vocal fans shouldn’t be able to completely change and narrow down its own definition to suit their whims. Er, in my point of view. So let’s differentiate between different types of yuri instead.

First, it is true that Ito Bongaku coined the terms “yuri” and “bara” as a reference to real, actual gay women and men, respectively. But it was both male and female hentai and doujinshi artists who popularized the term “yuri” as shorthand for any fiction depicting lesbian romance. This includes everything from hentai written for men to safe-for-all-ages shoujo comics, and everything in between. In Japanese, “yuri” is just a catch-all label for any anime, manga, game, whatever that depicts lesbian romance. It is only in English-speaking fandom that I’ve seen this “yuri only applies to things written by women for women” movement, and only recently. (I’m not talking solely about gynocrat’s post, either.)

Just to confirm that years of fandom experience have not left me with the wrong impression, I conducted a highly informal poll (i.e., I asked some casual questions) of my co-workers and a few of my students who I knew were big manga readers. They all pretty much agreed that “yuri” isn’t a term constricted by the target audience of a work, or by the gender of its creators. My students were shocked at the idea that “yuri” wouldn’t apply to works written by men (“But most yuri is for guys!” one student said) and also shocked by the notion that “yuri” wouldn’t apply to hentai.

I mean, just look at the “list of legitimate yuri” that gynocrat linked to. Quite a lot of it is written by men and/or published in men’s magazines. R.O.D. also gets very explicit and boobarific in some parts, bordering on hentai. That doesn’t mean that it’s not a damn good series just because it’s written by a man, runs in a man’s magazine, and has some bare breasts, wet shirts, and lots of nippage. But to claim “yuri is only intelligent and high-brow romance written by women!” and then link to a rec list that includes R.O.D., Simoun, Strawberry Panic, and Bakaretsu Tenshi is just… it’s just being in denial. Seriously.

In support of that view, Japanese sales rankings routinely group yuri manga under the €œtanbi€ (aesthetics) genre, which is an umbrella term for certain kinds of girl-oriented manga, including yaoi.

Of course. But that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a lot of yuri that isn’t labeled as tanbi, either. Some yuri is written by women, some yuri is published in shoujo magazines and marketed toward women (and yes, some of that is written by men). Some. Not all.

To define [yuri] by content alone is inadequate.

In a sense, I totally agree with you here. I think it IS useful to distinguish between different types of yuri. Obviously, lesbian porn written by a straight man versus lesbian porn written by a woman of any sexual orientation is going to be completely different. Likewise, we should distinguish between, you know, levels of explicitness. There’s a difference between subtext, crushes and kissing, and flat-out porn.

But we already have the vocabulary to make those distinctions. You can talk about “bishoujo yuri” (yuri written by and for men, as the launch lineup of the S7 line is), “shoujo yuri”, and “hentai yuri” of both persuasions. However, in the end, it’s all yuri.

Let me make a quick analogy: It would be inadequate to define a term like anime based on content. Because anime is simply any animation made in Japan. Therefore we differentiate between different types of anime. We do not, however, narrow down the definition of anime to apply to only “action shows marketed toward young boys featuring giant robots.” To do so would be stupid. Anime is useful as a broad label, there’s no need to limit its definition to only the types of shows that you like. (Broad labels are not inherently un-useful!) That’s what the “yuri is by and for women!” movement reminds me of. I can understand the feeling that lesbian romance written by women – or, you know, actual lesbians – is going to be on many levels better and more true than titillating fanservice written by straight men. But it’s still not fair to say “Well, now yuri only applies to the types of works that I like and the rest is just NOT real yuri.” Yes, I know that yuri is a broad term and yes, I know that the yuri umbrella includes a lot of stuff that some people don’t like. Oh well. A few people don’t get to magically redefine “yuri” to include only a few high-brow classy manga and exclude all of the titilatting porn, any more than I get to change the definition of anime to include only Miyazaki films and exclude, say, Gravion. It would make me feel less ashamed if I could pretend that only good anime ever existed. ;) But I can’t. That’s some of what I see going on in the “yuri is by/for women” movement. A lot of it seems to be coming from women and self-identified feminists. I’m also a woman and a self-identified feminist, and yeah, I struggle with the fact that I really enjoy yuri anime and manga, even though quite a lot of it is sexist and offensive. So I read and I think and I’ll rec what I like and snark at what I don’t. I don’t, however, get to single-handedly reclaim the word “yuri” from its majority usage so that it now only applies to what I deem as “good”.

Speaking of useful distinctions, this is a good article about the definition of yuri: http://www.yuricon.org/essays/whatisyuri.html . Note the last section of their definition: “We can, if we want to, differentiate between shounen yuri – written by men for a primarily male audience; shoujo yuri – written by women for a primarily female audience and; what we at Yuricon like to think of as ‘pure’ yuri – written by lesbians for a lesbian audience…but it’s still all yuri. In short, yuri is any story with women in love (or lust) with other women.”

Wow that was long. I’m sorry for splooging all over your blog. Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to my comments, though!

Heh, it’s kind of weird to see what I wrote in the afternoon, and then what I wrote after dinner and the opportunity to bug a few students with my questions!

But to claim €œyuri is only intelligent and high-brow romance written by women!€ and then link to a rec list that includes R.O.D., Simoun, Strawberry Panic, and Bakaretsu Tenshi is just€¦ it€™s just being in denial. Seriously

Hold up…the “yuri is only intelligent and high brow romance” if you quote…not mine. Now I may be wrong in my assessment that there are male creators out there making Yuri, but I ceed to that at the end of my post when I clearly define ‘Yuri readers and creators’ as just that, ‘yuri readers and creators’ not ‘woman making yuri’.

I’m really trying to figure out what’s got you so worked up about my entry. I know it can’t be all me, but seriously, can we take it down a notch. I’m hardly anyone worth listening to in terms of the Yuri stateside or in Japan, I’m just someone who’s read both styles and clearly see the difference of each styles intent.

I didn€™t mean to get so pissed off, it€™s just the wanky linguist in me getting up in arms about using a word the wrong way.

No problem, I’m guilty of this also in the genre I write for. I still cringe when people insist on calling my work ‘yaoi’ or BL.

And maybe this is me reading far too much into your post, but there did seem to be an unspoken implication that hentai yuri and/or yuri written by men could never be good.

Again, you’re reading into it, I love hentai of all forms, it’s the romance stuff made distinctly for women that I can€™t relate to. – but truth be told, I can see why you’re angry, if you feel that all forms of female/female in hentai for men and female/female mainstream, is all called Yuri.

My entire entry was for that sect of dudes who know nothing about the romance, and everything about Ryuuga Shou. –on that note, there are many yuri fen who don’t consider female/female for men in hentai…’acceptable yuri’ *nose up*, and so it’s going to be interesting to see what happens between these fans, the ones gravitating toward the 7S licenses and core ALC junkies.

Did you see ALC€™s response to the Press Release?
http://okazu.blogspot.com/2006/10/new-yuri-manga-kid-on-block-will-it.html

-Tina